Search for Addiction Treatment Centers Near You Forums Substance Abuse My Detox Schedule is now "freestyle"

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  • #30900
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    My suboxone doctor did something cool, he showed me a detox schedule but advised me to try to get head of the schedule if I possibly can. In other words the milligram dosages that I have each day on my calendar are “maximums” but I am free to use less if I think I can get away with it.

    At it stands, the calendar looks like this, in milligrams: 8, 8, 6, 8, 6, 6*, 8, 6, 6, 6, 4, 6, 4, 4, 6, 4, 4, 2, 4, 2, 2, 4, 2, 2, 2, 2, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 2

    The asterisk (*) in the list is today. But here’s the cool thing, you see that “8” two days ago previous to that asterisk? That was Sunday, but I didn’t take 8 that day… I only took 6. So this is my 4th day in a row of taking 6mg, tomorrow the chart says “8” but I am going to go in the other direction and take only 4mg.

    I think my revised accelerated schedule might look like this (starting with today) 6*, 4, 6, 4, 4, 6, 4, 4, 4, 2, 4, 2, 4, 2, 2, 2, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 2

    That’s only 4 weeks–and in the final two weeks I’m only taking a total of 14mg, that’s less that the amount I took on the very first day.

    The most bizarre thing is that I am carefully measuring and plotting my abandoning this drug which I honestly feel absolutely no effect from. I might as well be regulating my intake of vitamin B6 or something, I honestly can’t perceive what it does. All I know is that I “should” have just gone through the worst withdrawal of my life and I skated through it like it was no big deal. The wonders of modern science!!

    Now here’s the moral dilemma: suppose I get way ahead of schedule and have a dozen of those 2mg suboxone pills left in my bottle. Do I tell the doctor proudly that I have self-detoxed myself and I have 12 pills left? Or do I pretend that I took them all so that I can pocket them for possible future purposes?

    #159622
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    pocketing them for possible future purposes sure sounds like planning ahead for a future relapse……just to me anyways……i’d follow the dr’s guidelines as closely as possible, and not fiddle with success too much……one day at a time…..

    #159619
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I agree with anvil I have heard of people who do save the sub then relapse then start using the sub as a way to stave of the w/d’s when they cant do thier drug of choice. Its up to you whether you want to keep them or tell your Dr and see what he says. I think its great you’ve come this far just remember its easy to slip back just like you happened to do. Our cravings and thoughts can be our own enemy. Do you have any plans or any help in place for when your off the sub? I think a support group would help sometimes it can be just family or counselor or someone yuo can share with. Or even this board. Its a tough call for me and I know my addict mind would keep them for that just in case moment.

    #159625
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Today I was “supposed” to take 8mg and I only took 4mg, that’s the lowest dose I’ve taken yet. My plan now is to go back to 6mg tomorrow, then back to 4mg, and then I’ll see how I feel. I’m waaaaay ahead of schedule.

    I don’t believe that my doctor is intentionally trying to drag out the detox process, but it is a fact that the longer it takes the more money he makes from me. So it’s hard not be a little cynical here. On the other hand, reading some of the suboxone literature that’s aimed at doctors, I see that it’s perfectly normal to basically overload the addict with suboxone, as statistics prove that the less suboxone the addict takes the more likely is the chance of a sudden relapse.

    anvilhead, pocketing them for possible future purposes sure sounds like planning ahead for a future relapse.

    I know exactly what you mean. But the reality is that these little buggers are HARD TO GET! I’d hate to give something up that would come in handy later. I’m honestly not even thinking about taking them myself (why would I need to?) but I have some friends who either have opiate problems or are in the process of developing them. If I had a friend who was dopesick for a few days and I had some suboxone, of course I’d help him or her out. It could be just the ticket to relieve their suffering. Whether they end up going clean or not is their decision but even in the case of somebody who is hopelessly addicted, I see nothing wrong in relieving suffering when possible.

    Hoarding pills with me is almost like a knee-jerk reaction. I don’t care if it’s oxycodone or penicillin, if you can’t buy it over the counter I really hate to give it up!!

    Kj0975, Do you have any plans or any help in place for when your off the sub?

    Not particularly, but I wish I did. For most people the biggest danger-zone is about 90-120 days after they go clean; if they are going to relapse they probably will do it during that period. I’m different–for me, the memory of the horrors of addiction are to vivid in my mind right now. There’s no way in hell that I’ll do opiates anytime soon. In that respect, I’m not a typical addict.

    The worry (and it’s a real worry) is that after a year or two the memory will not be so vivid. I’ll remember the few good times and forget about the bad side. I could imagine myself deciding to jump back into opiates, “just for a little while”, and then get myself stuck again. All I can say is, I have to be strong.

    Anyhow in conclusion I’ve decided to just be honest with the doctor. When I see him in 8 days I’ll bring in my bottle and show him all of the leftover 2mg pills I’ve got, and I’ll also show him the calendar I’ve been keeping to demonstrate where I cut back. My goal in seeing a professional addictionologist was not to end up with a medicine cabinet full of “leftover suboxone”, my goal was to kick dope — and so far, it’s worked beautifully.

    #159620
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Well I did relapse right around the 90 day mark my cravings and thoughts kicked in. When I got clean I thought I would NEVER touch that crap again after all I went through to get off of the pills. Easier sad than done stay strong and stay active in recovery!!

    #159623
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    why not do whatever you can to give yourself THE BEST chance at staying clean this time? try meetings, try counseling, other group support, church, books, there are so many avenues to recovery out there, one could spend awhile on the hunt, and probably do a bang up job of helping themselves stay clean………

    just a couple things i noticed in your post…..trust me this isn’t an attack, just another viewpoint…..

    those friends with the opiate problems….are dangerous to your recovery. the fact that they use your drug of choice…..sooner or later that becomes a problem……and it’s a lot harder to say no when its right in front of you, than if it’s a long process to get…

    holding on to suboxones FOR friends is a bad idea…one, you are not a doctor, and would simply be enabling the behavior…here take one of these to help you thru withdrawals. well TWO ain’t gonna do much is it? how many did it take for you to taper? this should be handled with extreme care……subs aren’t aspirin, addiction isn’t a headache. and i’m pretty sure it’s illegal…..part of recovery is getting away from illegal and illicit behaviors…

    thinking that you are different than any other addict will see you get loaded again one day. you say the memories will keep you clean…….have they done so so far in your using experience???? trust me, staying off drugs is a full time, 24/7 JOB…..we don’t get to coast……..every day we need to be working on our recovery in some form or fashion………whatever that means to us…….people places and things……….if you’re a drug addict, someday down the road you’re gonna wanna use drugs again…….it’s what we do…..think about drugs, obsess, find darn good sounding excuses why it would be ok, just this once, just a little, then i’ll quit again………

    we’re never SAFE…….you’d be surprised what comes up the minute you let your guard down. you have worked really really hard to get where you are……..honor that, don’t make it for naught……you have a foundation, build on it. be the miracle….

    #159626
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Anvil, no I don’t feel attacked at all, you wrote:

    @anvilhead 1475743 wrote:

    why not do whatever you can to give yourself THE BEST chance at staying clean this time? try meetings, try counseling, other group support, church, books, there are so many avenues to recovery out there

    Maybe — that’s a subject that I have a while to think about. When I first kicked heroin in 1991-1992 I went to plenty of N.A. meetings because the methadone clinic required it. I didn’t mind the experience, but I never saw myself as one of these people who shows up after being clean for 10 years to talk about what life was like ages ago when they were hooked. Maybe I should be? Just go to just one or two N.A. meetings a year, see these burned-out junkies with absesses all over their hands, and remind myself why I am committed to staying clean.

    @anvilhead 1475743 wrote:

    those friends with the opiate problems….are dangerous to your recovery. the fact that they use your drug of choice…..sooner or later that becomes a problem……and it’s a lot harder to say no when its right in front of you, than if it’s a long process to get…

    Agreed 100%. But there are reasons why they are my friends, even taking drugs out of the equation entirely there are points of mutual dependency that have to be respected. It would surely make my recovery easier if I cut myself off from them–but it would make other areas of my life harder, and make their lives harder, and all of these million little details have to somehow be added up.

    @anvilhead 1475743 wrote:

    holding on to suboxones FOR friends is a bad idea…one, you are not a doctor, and would simply be enabling the behavior…here take one of these to help you thru withdrawals. well TWO ain’t gonna do much is it? how many did it take for you to taper? this should be handled with extreme care……subs aren’t aspirin, addiction isn’t a headache.

    After some thought, I’ve reached the same conclusion. I agree with you but I don’t think it’s clearly a bad idea. It’s an idea with some benefits and drawbacks. Like you say, just a FEW suboxone pills aren’t going to help anybody, at least not for long. Plus I would have to “play doctor” to some extent, frankly I don’t think it takes an 8-year degree to know how to taper somebody, but what if they were diabetic, or drank a lot, or had some other issue that had to be taken into consideration? In short, when you add it all together, it just isn’t worth it.

    @anvilhead 1475743 wrote:

    and i’m pretty sure it’s illegal…..part of recovery is getting away from illegal and illicit behaviors…

    Oh it’s quite illegal, I assure you. Call me a scofflaw, at least when it comes to drug laws. As much as drugs have harmed my life, I am still opposed to drug laws, as I think they do as much damage as the drugs themselves. But anyhow my political opinions don’t matter, as I’ve eliminated the idea of hording suboxone for practical reasons.

    @anvilhead 1475743 wrote:

    thinking that you are different than any other addict will see you get loaded again one day.

    Well now wait a minute–I never said that I was different from any other addict, what I said was “I’m not a typical addict.” I’m not even sure the mythical “typical addict” even exists–we like to stereotype, and admittedly we all have addictive personalities and therefore share many traits. But after years of self-examination I’ve come to learn various strengths and weaknesses that I have.

    When I say that the odds of me relapsing in the next 120 days is almost nothing, you might think “well I’ve heard that one before”–and that’s what I think too when I hear a junky say something like that. But in my case, I happen to know it’s true. This isn’t the first time I’ve relapsed, so I do have some experience behind me on the subject. On the other hand, you won’t hear me making promises about what will happen in 2008. All I can say is I hope that I’ll be clean.

    @anvilhead 1475743 wrote:

    I am exceptional you say the memories will keep you clean…….have they done so so far in your using experience????

    In a way, yes — but only for a while. That’s the problem. I am exceptionally good at getting clean, but not so hot at staying clean, at least not in the longrun. The good news is that I’ve always lasted at least 5 years between relapses. The bad news is, I’ve never lasted more than 5 years between relapses. It’s like a cosmic cycle, every 5 years I get “the itch” and I do something really, really stupid.

    I know it sounds crazy, but in the back of my head I’m thinking, “How to stay clean in 2012?” Meanwhile of course, there is the much more urgent task of staying clean in 2007!!

    #159624
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    yeah baby it ain’t the quitting that’s tough, it’s the staying quit…..

    i’ve been to a lot of NA and AA meetings and i never saw anybody who looked as you describe. try to give meetings a chance…god around here in seattle you can even find ones that serve Starbucks!!! 🙂 one meeting does not a program define….some are better than others, just like people. but i do know if you sit in one long enough, you will hear YOUR story……and you will witness people turning their lives around……a room full of addicts who AREN’T loaded……

    i think you have a great start and a great outlook. time to work on Relapse Prevention 2012! 🙂

    #159621
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Can I go to the Starbucks meetings? Please? Please?

    #159618
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    can I get a he## yeah!!!!???
    love north

    #159627
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’ll have a Mocha Latte with whipped cream, and a biscotti, please.

    #159628
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I posted above that my plan was to follow this schedule: “6*, 4, 6, 4, 4, 6, 4, 4, 4, 2, 4, 2, 4” where the * was the day that I posted the message.

    I was doing that but when I got to that “6mg” in the 6th position I noticed that the Doctor wrote down “4mg” for that day. Mind you I was still away ahead of schedule but just by coincidence one of my planned “up days” corresponded with one his “down days.”

    Well I didn’t feel right about taking more than he recommended for that day, even if I was way ahead of schedule, but I also didn’t want to take 4mg for the 3rd day in row, so took the plunge and went for 2mg instead. Since he’s given me the liberty to “freestyle” I’m allowed to do that. But that’s also the lowest dose I’ve taken (by far) so I was a little concerned that I might finally feel suboxone withdrawal.

    Summary:
    :dance1:
    It was easy!

    Today I took 4mg and tomorrow I’ll take 2mg again, so I’m in “2mg every other day” mode for now, soon to be just straight on 2mg, then I’ll take a 2mg every other day, then 2mg every third day, then just quit.

    I asked the doctor “why don’t we just break the 2mg pills in half so I can take 1mg doses at some point?” The reason is he gave me is “the company that makes the pills didn’t design them to be broken in half.” Well I can imagine some fat-fingered people having trouble splitting those pills but I know that I can reliably turn a 2mg into a two 1mg pieces. There’s even a groove down the middle! Kinda stupid if you ask me, but oh well, whatever, I’m down with the program.

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